This past September, Nicole was able to sit down and chat with Gabrielle Widjaja (she/her)! Gabrielle is a designer, illustrator, and tattoo artist based in Brooklyn, NY. Throughout her journey of becoming the human being she is, Gabrielle created GENTLE ORIENTAL - an alter ego & personal practice about making sense of Asian diasporic identity through visual ephemera. Tune in all weekend to hear about all things Gabrielle, we hope you are as excited as we are! ✨

GW: I am from the Bay Area. I grew up around so many Asians; I feel like I was just in a bubble where I grew up. Then when I went to Rhode Island School of Design and majored in Graphic Design, things changed for me there because I realized how little my world was.

After school, I unexpectedly started getting funneled into the tech industry. Junior year, I fell into an internship at Stripe, which is a financial tech company. But it was a really corporate, really traditional, job/skill set, you know like get all your things checked off the list. Then, I started really exploring my identity as an Asian American person through my degree project at RISD. I was doing a couple of branding things here and there, but for my degree project, I started digging into what food means as a medium of cultural literacy.

I had felt so far away from being Asian or realizing my identity as an Asian person in America my entire life. In the Bay, like I said there are just so many of us. You’re in a very homogeneous group and you never have to think about the fact that you are “other” in the Bay which is kind of crazy because it’s like it’s own microcosm of Asia in a lot of places. But when I got to The Rhode Island School of Design, obviously everyone was so different and there were so many social justice issues I was just learning about for the first time. I started cooking Asian food when I was in college. I think I tried to cook every day. 

But I felt so much closer to my heritage and I was learning bits and pieces of my heritage through that project. It was the “Have You Eaten Yet project” which was actually the very first project that started the entire Gentle Oriental thing, it’s the oldest project that I’ve worked on.

That degree project was basically about illustrating these recipes, specifically these nine that I felt were my favorite and how I was using cooking to sort of feel closer to culture. For example, learning the names of dishes I had not even known what they were before. Learning how to write them, learning how to pronounce ingredients in Chinese, there are so many really oddly specific spices it’s kind of crazy. You can learn a lot about your culture from food. I think food is an easy access point to your heritage if you felt really far from it before. So that was it for the degree project, I made the cookbook. I hand printed and bound like three or four of them. It was huge for me.

When I moved to New York, I started my job at Airtable, which I don't think it's a startup anymore, but it's another tech company. I think tech is really interesting. Getting into it can be so difficult, especially for people of color. One of the biggest things I noticed was there were not that many, first of all, black and brown coworkers, I had like, maybe I could count them on my fingers. It was crazy. Another thing was that in the design world, there are so many female and POC designers, but none of them, or very few of them, are actually in positions of power. I was seeing so many people who looked like me in the industry, which is great, but also none of us were in positions of power in the industry, which is fucked up.

Like, who can you name? Who’s a woman who's a design leader? Paula Share, Natasha Jen, there's two, but they're at the biggest firms, you know? So that was definitely one big problem that I saw. Something that I liked though about working at Airtable was that I got to work on a lot of diversity, equity and inclusion work there. That was super awesome and meaningful to me.

I think if you attach “free” to it, people know that it might not be great. Surprisingly there were people who were still willing to get my stuff on them, even though it wasn't perfect which was actually crazy, now that I think about it. I did somebody’s first tattoo ever and it was my first tattoo ever also on somebody else and I was like, I can't believe you're letting me do this. And it didn't turn out that bad honestly, it was kind of cute.

Another thing that sparked the tattoo thing was that while I was doodling and drawing and figuring out my style, I had drawn this doodle sheet. There was a snake wearing a boot, or like a high heel or something. A couple of people actually asked me if these were like flash sheets and I was like, they're not, but they can be. So then I bought the set and I started. So that is how it started during the time of Airtable. I would take tattoo appointments in my apartment on the weekends. I don't know how I was hustling so hard back then.

Then pandemic hit and I was stuck inside and started just making all my Gentle Oriental stuff. I started doing more illustrations, more design stuff, starting to build out my personal brand. I remember making a lot of merch during the pandemic. During 2020, I made a lot of t-shirts and lighters. At that point I had found sort of my authentic or genuine interest, which also helps when you're trying to find your art style. People gravitate towards things that seem really genuine. 

I got to collaborate with really cool Indian American artists, for example, Michelle Moines, who is a really amazing photographer. She did product photos for me and I exchanged those for some tattoos for her. I think the best part about living in New York and being creative here is that within the community, you can literally learn so much from each other and do artist trades.

NK: What is your opinion about going to school for your passion?

GW: So personally I loved going to design school and I mean, we all complained about RISD so much while we were there, but I actually really appreciated it. I think that it's also so different from person to person because there were people who really hated it and dropped out during the years that I was there. The grind was just, first of all, really unhealthy and it wasn't like, oh, like they just can't keep up. No, it literally was so unhealthy. But I think graphic design was a little bit more of a forgiving major to be in. I think people in the animation and apparel departments were so controlled. The biggest takeaway for me was just being in one singular place. I didn’t think this was ever going to happen again in my life, where I'm surrounded by that many creative people. 

New York is basically like a giant RISD campus if I'm being honest because people here are so weird and awesome and authentic. RISD is also where I was starting to experiment with my style fashion-wise and just really coming into myself, personality-wise. You were surrounded by so many other, not even like-minded, but different minded and creative people. 

It's very different from person to person and there were also obviously so many institutional problems like frickin art elitism and things like that. So real. But I also have the opinion that, I think you could learn a lot without going to art school. I can't say for certain because I did go, but I think it's definitely possible to learn about art and design without having to be in an academic setting. But it certainly helps. It doesn't hurt to be there.

NK: I’m always curious to ask because being in the Music Business program, we had a professor on the first day of school like, if you can picture yourself being in any other industry, get out of this room. And kids would leave. Kids would get up and leave because it wasn't the grind sometimes or the environment's too much, but I do appreciate it, like that is so true. When are we ever going to get an opportunity to be in that space again? It's definitely a very cool privilege to be able to go to school for it.

GW: Yeah. Definitely a privilege is what I would say. Some of the best artists, I don't even think they went to art school necessarily. I think it just helps you on your journey.

NK: So you went from school to this really cool hobby that you started doing for free and then working. Even your website, it's like night and day, like Hannah Montana. How were you able to make that work for you as a creator and make the time for it?

GW: The truth is that I quit my job, so I am only doing Gentle Oriental right now. More power to me, I guess. I still have that other part of my website up cause I do have more professional work and client work that's not necessarily related to me being an AAPI. It can also be hard when your identity becomes your business. I think that's the struggle of a lot of creators, especially small creators for sure. I was doing that whole Hannah Montana thing for like, a year I think before I decided to quit my job. I basically wanted to save enough so that if something went horribly wrong, I would have maybe a month or two to just try to find a job and have money saved up, you know, for a rainy day.

That's also a privilege to be able to do that. For a lot of people who work at day jobs, especially in tech, it can be easier to transition out. And I feel for those people who are working at normal, like nine to five, grind jobs, and still make time for their side business. Or people who even just risk it all and just without any cushion or backup plan, throw themselves into their business. Once I quit my job is when I realized my fuller potential. It's a risk and investment type of thing with your time.

It was definitely so scary for me. I felt like my whole life was planned out since I was born. You know, my mom was like, you go to school, you go to grad school. BFA, MFA, work, work, work, work, retire, die. Also I'm a Capricorn. The least Capricorn thing I've ever done in my life was to just quit my job and hope for the best. Gratefully, I was able to pick up some really cool freelance jobs right after I quit. For example, Wing on Wo, they're a repeat client of mine.

I love being able to work with small businesses in the community. And you make stuff that really matters and that's dear to my heart, but also can pay the bills. It's awesome. I think one thing that I'm struggling with right now is feeling like I have to be validated by people in the actual industry in order to be considered a good designer. So that's something I'm sort of contemplating because I had this job interview on Friday, for a really cool company and I think part of me is like, do I actually want this job because it'll be good for me or do I just want to see if I have the chops to keep up in the industry still and be a player like that. It's not the end of the world, whether I take a job or not. I think my personal practice will always find a way to shine through hopefully.

It was like, oh where's your furniture and everything else? It's all underneath these goods, you know? And not only that, but shipping boxes take up their own space. I would say use Airtable actually. It's a great product that you can track all your business needs. I'm just going to plug that even though I don't even work there anymore, but I am a really avid user.

So there's a lot that I'm still learning on the fly. I don't even know if I have advice, but just be prepared to sadly learn a lot of things as you go. You will make some mistakes here and there, you will miscalculate lead times on products. It will happen and you will learn from it. I think really the only way to learn is from experience.

When you're a small business and you're marketing yourself when you're creative, it's really hard. Sometimes it feels attached, like the amount of sales, likes comments, and shares from your work as a person. It's just a business, but also it's hard because you've made all that stuff. I think it's good to just step away from Instagram sometimes. It's also hard because I am a slave to Instagram and the algorithm. I'm still trying to figure it out.

It's nice if you can find a shop that is really welcoming, but as far as I've heard from all the women and POC, they've had terrible experiences with shop culture and harassment. I'm really glad that the community of contemporary tattoo artists are really blossoming and really open.

For example, these tattoo shops that I'm guesting at, one is Underground SF. It’s a women and LGBTQ+ owned shop and it's always private appointments. You have to book with each artist, it's not walk-ins. And I really like that. To be in a space that's obviously so welcoming for me and for my clients, I think that's really important. In LA, I get to tattoo at these two other places, Jelly LA and Angel Kisses Studio. And they're both run by POC/women, which is so awesome. So that's basically the only types of places I think I would have the courage enough to guest. So yeah, I think I will have plans to go to other countries and stuff like that in the future.

I think my books filled up for California in literally like one minute. It was kind of unfortunate. I feel really bad. One thing is that when you're a single person, the supply does not increase as the demand scales up, which is really something that I'm working through. How can I provide my art for everybody? I'm not a machine. People ask me if they can get my designs tattooed on them by other people. I think some artists are okay with that, but I'm not okay with it because I think the giving and receiving portion of getting tattooed and giving somebody my art is very intimate and personal. I like talking to the person and knowing who's carrying my art on them and who appreciates my art so much that they'd want to own it forever. Everybody describes their own meaning to the tattoos that I designed, which is super awesome to hear those stories.

NK: Popular!

GW: One time I left my form open in New York for like two minutes too long or something, and I got like 70 entries and I was only supposed to take 25. So, it feels exciting to know that a lot of people want my work, but it can be a little bit overwhelming.

NK: That's super exciting. And as you were saying this, if you ever go to Nashville, I just thought of a tattoo shop (my friend works there) but it has exactly that vibe, it's called Gratitude tattoo.

GW: Wait, YES! I'm always looking for tattoo shops basically everywhere. People have messaged me from around the world, which is kind of cool. Well, really cool. Actually. People want me to come guest in Berlin and lots of other places in Europe. Someone was like, will you ever come to Madrid sometime? I would love to! I get a lot of requests for Australia. Parts of Asia I'd love to go to. I mean, the options are basically endless. It's very cool.

NK: Maybe you should do a tour....

GW: That would actually be so crazy. I'm just thinking about Billie Eilish and how she has all these dates and all these different cities, but it's just a tattoo line up. That’s cool. Cause like that is a vacation, but also it pays for itself cause you're kind of working, but tattooing feels less like work and more like fun to me.

NK: That’s so cool. Since you moved, you said you were tattooing before in your home. Are you doing that still or do you have a studio?

GW: Oh God no, definitely not during COVID. That's a health hazard. Definitely. Also, I feel so bad for my partner. He was just at home all the time when I would have random people go into our apartment and sit in our living room. And I was like, okay, I feel really inconsiderate. So I needed to get my own studio space. I work in a private studio in Greenpoint now. It's a big room that is rented out to a bunch of different artists and designers, who work on their own stuff. And I just have this one area of the room cornered off and it's just my tattoo area. I go in twice a week and I tattoo and then the other three days of the week I've been freelancing.

NK: That’s sick, congratulations! I'm very excited to hear about what life may be like alongside  tattooing, if you happen to get this job. 

GW: Oh my God. I'd love to know too, girl. I want to keep doing my thing, but I hate this part… money. I think one of your questions was like, do I ever get requests from brands that I don't want to work with? Or you want to work with? During Stop Asian Hate, I got requests from Facebook Messenger and Best Buy. It was cool to be reached out to by big companies, but also why are they doing it? What's the substantialness behind the action other than just having me so that they can say they had an AAPI artist do a thing for them. I don't know.

The money they were offering was really good too. So that's one thing as a small business or a small creator. It is really hard. Sometimes, you have to take the job because it's a lot of good money. And that's the only way that you survive, as a small artist. But at that time, I was like, okay it's a privilege to just quiet those requests. I was still at my job back then. And I just wanted to leave space for myself to heal from those events. It was just a lot, so much happening.

I was spending my personal time working on “We are Still Here,” and “Ingrained”. Those projects, community projects, actually matter to me. I wasn't making any money from those, but it felt so much more spiritually healing. It would be really cool though to work with Nike or something. I would love to do that. There are big brands that I would totally work for. I'd be like, yes, pay me. And I want to put all my art on your shit.

NK: We’re manifesting for you here. You bring out the good vibes, it'll come around.

You've done so many cool collaborations though, already. It's really sick that you were able to say no to Best Buy and Facebook. With “Ingrained”, or “We Are Still Here,” how did you go about that community kind of crowdsourcing for those pieces while we were all inside

GW: Instagram was excellent. The “ask me a question” or like submit a response thing is perfect so that's what I use for all my things that are community based. Also, I actually decided to do email submissions for both “Ingrained” and “We Are Still Here”. I wanted photos and stories and stuff like that. I just loved hearing from so many different people.

There was so much struggle and pain, but also joy, you know? Lots of just good community vibes. I love operating off social media for that reason. I think it's really easy to reach out to people. Actually the “We Are Still Here” book is arriving today to my house. It took forever to make, but I'm so excited. I made a limited run of 500 or something. I really liked doing those community-based response projects. I take joy in designing other people's stories. I think one other thing I've been thinking about for the future for a similar idea is a zine called “Say My Name,” and I’d do a bit of writing for it. One thing that always gets me is how Asian/ any POC tends to have their name just horribly botched. Chinese names are very simple, but there are also really long names they’re always made fun of. That's a huge part of growing up as a person who is part of the diaspora or you know, in a white centric society, the pronunciations, the name thing. They never say it with honor. One of the lines in my poem was always say with a lilt up at the end, Widjaja?, as if my identity is a question basically. That’s the way it makes me feel. That's my next project. Hopefully I will get a lot of responses for that.