KYO PANG

 Introducing….. Kyo Pang ! Kyo is the Restaurateur, Founder and Executive Chef of @kopitiamnyc, a Malaysian restaurant currently located in Chinatown, NYC. Kyo’s been featured in Bon Appetit’s list for The Hot 10: Best New Restaurants 2019, she has received raved reviews in The New York Times and The New Yorker, she was named Eater NY’s Chef of the Year in 2018 and has been nominated for TWO (not just one but TWO) James Beard Awards (2019, 2020). Impressed? WE ARE TOO! Kyo is the coolest! We are so excited to share her story with you!! Without further ado…. KYO!

 [We get handed all of our iced coffees in lovely pouches and get comfy] 

Nicole: These are fun. What are these pouches? 

Kyo: The trend for these pouches kind of started because of the truck drivers. They have a long drive so every night they hang it by the mirror so it reminds them to drink the water. So it eventually becomes like a trend. In Malaysia or in Southeast Asia or Thailand and other places you'll see that it happens pretty often. People whenever you order to-go drinks especially iced, they wrap it up like that drink. But in US, it is not FDA approved if we wrap in that way, so this one I actually had to source the bag to make sure that it's actually, you know, safe to use for food and FDA approved etcetera, etcetera. 

Hashika:  I grew up with Milo, I am from Sri Lanka. I used to drink a Milo like 3 times a day, it was crazy.

Kyo: Yeah, Milo is a different level.

Nicole:  Let's start from the very beginning. Where are you from? Where'd you grow up? Give us a little background.

Kyo:  I was born and raised in Penang, Malaysia. I'm a third generation Baba Nyonya in my family. I am apparently also one of the last generations. The Baba Nyonya is a very specific group that were born and raised in a specific time. In the 60s, they didn't talk about those issues [regarding the passing on of the Baba Nyonya traditions], there were  a lot of us that have migrated and a lot of people that no longer practice the same kind of practice anymore. So the tradition has kind of died out. For my family, we still practice it, but apparently I'm like the last generation. Baba Nyonyas specialize in a lot of colorful cuisine. Our ancestors are products from the failing Chinese Empire so a lot of cooking knowledge was actually learned in the palace. A lot of things are associated with colors, making things very beautiful, and very pretty. When they migrated to Southeast Asia, they adapted the local’s cuisine, so then it became a combination of the palace foods and the local foods and all the different spices. We say that we probably are the first generation of fusion cuisines in Southeast Asia because we have the East and West and also the locals. We specialize in understanding the natural ingredients and the characters of certain ingredients. For example, we have a dessert that is salty and sweet that goes with our belief in Buddhism.  We believe that something always comes around, good energy always brings good things around. There is this dessert called Kuih Talam, it is salted on top, sweet on the bottom. As a kid, I always liked to eat the sweet part and hated the salty part. But when I grew up, I just felt like I needed to evolve to make me feel like "oh, that IS right," you know? According to my grandmother, when you're a kid you only want sweet things but when you're an adult, you need a little saltiness to bring into your life to make it complete. We have a lot of food that goes along with our beliefs. There are a lot of lessons to be learned that are all related to religion.

Nicole: So food is something that is obviously very important to your family.

Kyo: (laughs) Sort of.

Nicole:  Is that where your passion for cooking came from? Did you grow up cooking at home?

Kyo:  Well, apparently I never wanted to be a chef.

(Everyone at the table gasps)

Kyo:  I swear to God that I didn’t want to be in the restaurant business… so don't ever swear that. That always comes by as a curse.  My parents were the second generation in the food business so growing up, they constantly - I wouldn't say brainwashed - but they encouraged me to study very well so that I knew I didn’t have to do the things that I do now. My grandparents or my great grandparents, they had no choice to be in the industry because they were already in the industry. Then, when it comes to my parents, they had no choice because it was better than working for other people or you know, you need to continue whatever that family leaves to you.

Oh yes! This is complimentary. This is one we're known for - this is the Kaya Toast and this mochi. Please eat it while it is hot! [FOOD ARRIVES TO SAMPLE]

Nicole: Oh my god. 

Hashika: Yes!!!

Kyo: Enjoy, enjoy. Yeah.

Hashika: Holy...

Kyo: So, what makes this (the Kaya jam) green is the pandan leaves. Pandan is what we can call “high leaves” or in Southeast Asia a kind of vanilla leaf. It has a lot of fragrance and zeal to get the color there. And then it also contains eggs, and palm sugar and coconut milk, that is it. So those simple ingredients like I said, you know like Baba Nyonya cuisine, we use the simplest ingredients understanding the natural characteristics of it and they use them to bring the best out of them. Everything that we have is actually very simple, like again, this mochi, same thing. It is peanut, sesame seeds, sugar, and a glutinous rice that makes it very fluffy. It’s like one of the street foods that was my childhood favorite. Back then, I couldn't share it, I wouldn't want to share one bite.

PART 2

Nicole: This is incredible. Okay so you were saying you are a third generation Baba Nyonya? 

Kyo: I'm a third generation. My parents tell me don't be in the food business. I never wanted to be in the food business. Growing up I had, like I said, I grew up trying to meet my mom's standards. I had this ideal me and I felt like I was struggling between the ideal me and the actual me. I was born with Asperger and my symptoms don’t really show that much now but when I was a kid, they actually did a lot. I didn't know that I had Asperger's until later on in life. But my mom was pretty strict on a lot of things… and I actually wanted to be in the fashion industry.

Hashika: Oh wow!

Kyo: I came to the city and then I double majored, so I was double majoring in PR and Advertising and also psychology.

Nicole: Wow. Triple threat.

Kyo: Studying psychology actually made me understand more of my own symptoms and stuff like that. But I don't want to continue to be in psychology because if I wanted to be in it, I needed to further my studies and back then when I first came to the United States, I actually came up with my own tuition, so it was tough. Like you're doing a double major, you're paying everything by yourself, it's crazy. So yeah, it was like a curse. Basically I had to work two jobs, I put all my classes in one day, and I worked the rest of the six days. Thursday was 8am until 8pm class day and other days you go and study 45 minutes and then you go to the next job, that kind of thing.  And then you study, it's like that. So I fit everything in and I managed to finish everything within two and a half years.

Nicole: Rock on! 

Hashika: Wait, what was your job?

Kyo:  I worked in a restaurant, that's why I say it was a curse. It was the only thing that would actually help you to pay off your tuition. In the morning I worked in Japanese stores as a kitchen helper. And then.. I mean it was tough luck. I changed jobs a lot throughout the years because back then, I didn’t really talk that much, I had problems talking to people. So I worked in the kitchen because someone from my high school, she actually was in New York and she introduced me to a group of people that also worked part time. Someone asked if I wanted to work at this Japanese restaurant on 45th Street and Third Avenue and I went there. I was like the only female, everyone else was a guy. I was like okay... and then I worked there. At night, I worked at a restaurant called East John New York. It's like a theme restaurant and it's pretty expensive. I worked as a bartender, you don’t have to talk to people [as a bartender] because you're looking at the back and you leave the drink behind. And I got lucky because the first day I had actually gotten there, the head bartender quit on the same day. Yeah… he didn't show up. So I just took everything. When I arrived in New York, in my pocket I only had $14.90. It was crazy. $14.90 because I was in LA and then I went to New York. When I fly to New York, my visa expired the same day. And then because I would have to go to school, the school has to help me to apply and all that.

Hashika: Were you transferring to an F1 visa? 

Kyo: Yes, I would transfer to F1. And then it was funny, because then they [the school] said that they “are not going to help the student to do it”. The person I went to ask, they said, "Oh, you can actually come to New York, we will help you to apply." And then when I arrived, they tell me, "Oh, here's the thing, the person who said that apparently is new to our department, so she didn't know. But since you have everything in black and white, and we'll apply it for you." And I was accepted. So, yeah, I feel like I got lucky. Then I was in school, I pay everything off, you know, like tuition, everything like that. Because the money that I make in LA, it was like a work in travel program. I make some money over there, come here, pay off everything, then I only have $14.90 left. Yeah that is it. I lived in Park Slope on 13th Street and Seventh Avenue with a very interesting roommate.... I lived there for a month, [Kyo tells us a brief but wild ex-roommate story]... then I had to move out. 

(collective laugh)

Nicole: That sounds like one of those classic New York roommate situations.

Kyo: Yeah all these kinds of different things approach you and happen for different reasons... It is all very interesting. But yeah, so the $14 lasted two weeks. I remember it was terrible. I have to buy pasta and ragu that would last me for two weeks and so I eat very little. I got lucky and I found a job at fashion week on the same day I ran out. Then I got like a couple $100s a day so I was like "oh, I'm able to pay now." And then I kind of thought... I kinda like this. But I keep telling myself once I graduate I'll finally get away from the restaurant business.

When I graduated, my mom tried to surprise me so she and my sister flew to New York to attend my graduation party. And so funny like when she arrived and then I remember she took some pictures and my other friends arrive to you know and give me like a flowers and then after all these pictures I was like "Okay, mom, we can leave now" and then she was like, "This is not what I have seen on TV. Like, what I see on TV, you usually take a picture with friends" and I said “mom, I don't really have friends because I go to school for classes. And then I have to work. I don't have friends." It's bad but for me it was okay, or maybe because of my Asperger's or whatever it is, but yeah, it was okay.

But that is how I graduated. And when I graduated, I was still in the restaurant business because I still had some things to be paid off, like the tuition. Then, I wanted to be in a production team. During that time was the recession. I wasn't able to continue being in PR because before people actually talked to me, they would say "Oh, you're actually not born and raised here, so your English is probably not that great." Yeah... that kind of assumption. But when they have a conversation with you, they say, "Oh, your English is actually not bad!" and I'll say "actually that was my first language!" and they would be like "how could that be? You are Malaysian?!" (big eye roll)

Hashika:  I had this happen to me last week, this guy was like "Oh, you are from Sri Lanka? Your english is so good!" and I am like "English is one of the national languages of the country...

Kyo:  In Chelsea, I remember one time I was talking to a group of my Japanese friends and we were speaking in English and people actually came up to us and said "do you guys speak English?" and I looked at him and I was like....We were literally talking as you came up. He asked other things like directions to certain things, but it's like, the first thing that actually occurred to him to say was "oh do you guys speak English." I was like. Ugh. That actually happens to me a lot whenever it comes to job things, it happened too when I was in college. My dean was very... “special” I would say. She was very strict to international students, things like that. There's only like three of us. Whenever she asked questions she was like "oh do you know what that means? I bet you don't know!" Like she would answer for me. No matter how well I did in anything, she would never give me a good grade. At most she would give a B. It was that bad. When I graduated she was like "apparently you actually did better than I expected! That's great!" 

So, what am I supposed to say? I mean in school they usually have people that they favorite, you know. One girl, she actually would hand in her proposal two hours late and still get an A and then for me, it was always a B. And when I do presentations, my group people give me very little to present, like very little. So to me at that time, I just needed to graduate. When I first applied to school here, I actually got accepted to Columbia, but I couldn’t afford it. So that's why I had to pick the City College of New York, I just wanted to get a piece of paper. When I graduated, I was in the industry and then, funny, a friend invited me to a fashion event. I was in the back of the house and it was splendid. I kept on helping out in those kind of background spaces, like backstage work, and eventually one time I met this guy, he'd say "Oh, why don't you work for me, I have a production company, like an event production company." One of the reasons that I was in advertising and PR was because I speak, including dialects, up to 10 languages. I thought that maybe being in the PR industry would actually help. I was very active in that life for a very long time, maybe five or six years. 

[pause for appreciation from a customer] - thank you so much, we are leaving but we really appreciate what you do!

Kyo: Thank you, thank you! 

Nicole: Wait, so you were in the industry and then you kind of dabbled a little bit around, how did you make it back to the restaurant business?

Kyo: It is funny, like I said, you remember when I say the [Baby Nyonya] circle thing, if your roots are one way, you always come back to them, you know. This is in our beliefs. When I designed the Kopitiam logo, it is a ruiz flower, if you can see. We believe that good energy comes back so this is it, like here. A ruiz means to ask or wish. You know like, sometimes you probably don't know where your roots are or sometimes you start from your roots and you are always there so that is how it is. I was in the fashion industry then I was in the event industry. I was doing very well, very great but I just didn’t feel like me. It was flamboyant, it was fabulous, it was like, you know, imagine you walk into one of the craziest clubs and don't even have to line up. They looked at me, they were like "hey" and I'm like "hey,” and even my friends, none of them have to line up either. I have a table and everything like that. And then at one point, not many Asian people were in like certain clubs and I was actually the first group that bring them into those clubs. It was crazy. So whenever they see me, they know who I am. Back then I was blonde and they call me "The Blonde Mafia" 

Nicole:  No way.

Hashika: (laughs) 

Kyo:  Back then that is what they used to call me, it was great, and I was doing very well but I didn’t feel like me. It just felt like something was missing. At that time I was like 26/27. When you're reaching 30, you have another kind of crisis in life. You feel like "Oh shit, I'm not achieving anything." When I graduated, I had 3.85 GPA but it just felt wrong, like whatever I studied wasn't really applicable. It actually proved my mom wrong by saying that if you study well you do well in your industry. That's not right. My mom was actually encouraging me to go back to school and I said no, I already tried this long, I am not going back.

PART 3

Kyo: At one point, I was reading this article about a fashion editor who becomes a chef. She was actually half Korean and half white. She was sharing her story about why she became a chef and it was because her mother is Korean and she passed away six months after she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She shared a little bit about her growing up and what her mom would prepare for her. She made three different breakfasts in the morning, one for her dad, one for herself, and one for her daughter. Growing up she would take it for granted, she never thought that one day she would lose her mom so quick, you know. It took her two years to finally be able to duplicate the similarities of the cooking but it was not the same thing. It helped me. It reminded me you know, people like things to repeat. 

I remember when I was a kid I would go to this place and I ate their noodles for six years, six years! It just reminds me of my parents. It hit me and I was like, shit, what if that happens to me? My dad is a great chef and in Penang, a lot of people know him. Even though he's not that old, he’s served four generations of people. I used to ask my dad "Why do you want to be a chef? Why do you want to open a restaurant?" I never understood that. He told me it's because food connects people. Then, I just didn;t get it. Almost like... “Dad, you're not ambitious enough! What if you became a businessman?” As a kid, there were a lot of things that I hoped my dad was in so that I’d actually have a better stepping stone. I wished my dad was in something else. But it was never the case. In school, I never really tell people that those are my parents and that's my parents restaurant because I was never raised to be proud of the industry they were in. But they were famous, their restaurant is famous. When people talk about it, they are like "THAT restaurant is your parent’s restaurant?!" People know about that place. By rite I should be proud, but I was so shy about it. I never tell people about my parents and what they do for the industry there. And then i was in conflict for a very long time until my dad had a midlife crisis, He was very depressed. At one point, he felt like at one point he was very successful and like he's not progressing now and I almost lost him. I had a talk with him because I was very close to him compared to my mother. When we talk about food, it makes him happy again. He was like okay, maybe I should do this for my daughter, you know? And then I had a talk with my mom and she was like "remember the place where you and your dad always hang out with the noodles? They shut down because that old man passed away and all the kids were engineers or doctors. They are not taking over, no one is continuing.” That's pretty bad, you know? That's really bad. 

I went back to New York and I told my boss I'm quitting. He was like "Nooooo!" and I said "yessss!" but he didn’t want to let me go. He actually needed money to invest for his company and I said yes and ended up losing everything at one time. But I was still determined to open up the coffee shop [Kopitiam]. In one month I get all the paperwork done. I registered a company and everything's done in one month. And then I started to sell at street fairs. To me, it was very ironic. I remember my mom used to say “you don't sell on the street!”. Well I'm selling on the street mom! I tell myself, “I did well in school... I did well! But I am selling on the street right now!”

One time, I was working like nine to five on Saturday. I would sell at the Hester Street Fair from 10 am to 6 pm but I would have to clean up before six so that I could go to another street fair in Flushing from 6 pm to 12 am. It's so funny because before 6 pm, I actually have to stop people from buying because I need to sell later, like “please don't buy!!” It just makes me feel so good whenever people say “this is what I had when I was a kid!” People migrated here and they haven't had this for a long time, you know?

[another pause from a happy customer] - Thank you, this was amazing. Thank you so much! It was so good. Seriously, thank you. 

Kyo: Thank you! 

Kyo: I was doing the district fair thing and then one time my friend was smoking sitting next to me. I was tired that night, I wanted to find a store, and I had X amount of money to make my shop happen. My friend was like "yeah, across the street, I know the owner of that shop. It used to be a flower shop." And it was like 210 square feet so imagine, it was 1/5 of this place [gestures around Kopitiam today]. I walked in there and looked at it and I said “let's do it.”

It was very small. During that time everybody thought I was crazy because no one ever tried to make a restaurant in such a small place. But for Baba Nyonyas, we believe in making ingredients in your hands to make something that people think that you can't. So you know, you make it work. Like my parents' kitchen, the same thing, very small, but we still fit the whole family. And so whenever people come in, if you ever look at the old pictures, you kind of have to imagine how I actually do that. I remember I was frying anchovies that kind of thing and the guy at the corner store, so cocky, came in and said he's gonna call the health department because I'm frying all these anchovies that make his expensive clothes smell. I looked at him and was like “no one asked you to sell here, I was here before you, I can't stop the smell, come on.” We came to an agreement saying that I can fry before 11 am or after 7 pm. He thinks when customers come in and it smells bad, no one else is gonna buy anything. Like no, people don't buy your clothes because your clothes are expensive, it's nothing to do with the smell man... But he compromised, so whatever. 

It was 210 square feet, a storefront as a flower shop with a small bathroom, it served 4 people. I was like,”okay, every day, I just want to make a couple $100 that would pay my rent, pay everything.” When I opened up, my account was actually negative $4,000. It was that bad, but I was so determined. I was on credit cards, I maxed everything out. I took out a loan on some money, too. With $38,000, I opened up that small little store and then in three months, I made it all back. And then yeah, we went from there. That is how Kopitiam opened up. 

My mom was very disappointed. She'd say “why did you spend so much money on education and now you just want to make coffee!? You're insane. You're crazy. Why do you want to do that?" I had a deep conversation with my mom saying that for the past 29 years I've been a good girl, you know, I do not smoke. I don't do drugs. I don't, I don't,  I don't. I mean, I drink occasionally, yes, but I don't do any bad things. I never even had my first tattoo until I was 29. I was being a good girl, you wanted me to study well. I have never crossed any lines. But right now I just felt like I should do something on my own. Like I want this and then I want to tell you that I'm gay. I like girls, I don't want to be with guys. My mom was like “oh my god, what...“ My mom did not talk to me for like three months, she would send my dad to talk to me. To me he’d say “I can't talk to your mother, we just have to just leave it." It took some time. My mom thought about it, I have never been doing anything bad, you know? 

Whenever I had the write ups in the New York Times on the coffee shop, I never tell them, my parents don't know about them. I feel like with the recognition, it's good, you know, I appreciate it. But I think that I'm just doing my part to do the best at whatever I can do. Our little recognitions and everything make me feel like it's a blessing. Maybe because I was raised in such a manner that I don't really brag to my mom. I have even blocked my mom on Facebook…

[collective gasp and laugh] 

I blocked her because I didn't want her to see it. I blocked her because her friends are very nosy. Like you know people around her age are so nosy they want to know everything about everything!

Hashika:  How did your dad react to you opening up a restaurant? 

Kyo:  He was very happy you know, like I said he's very Western minded so he will say "oh you just be happy, just be who you are." Like he knew that I was gay since I was very little and then he knew when I have my first girlfriend when I was 13. 

Hashika: Why did you pick the name Kopitiam?

Kyo:  Kopitiam means "coffee shop" in Malaysia. In Malaysia, we have a lot of coffee, like coffee tea. But the thing is in the differences between the coffee shops in Malaysia and also here in New York is that in New York, most of the time when you move to a place, there's always a coffee shop that you are hanging out at all the time until you move to another place. You will never come back to the same one unless you happen to pass by it. 

Hashika:  Right, right. 

Kyo: To me in New York, I feel like every coffee shop can be replaced basically after you move to another place but the coffee culture in Malaysia is not like that. People hang out there for generations. For instance my parents restaurant, it actually started as a coffee shop then it turned into more of the food restaurant after my father took over. So people have been hanging out there for generations. Theres one place my father would bring me to, it's like a regular Kopitiam but with a name on it. My father would bring me there in the morning when he went to the market, he would hand pick everything for his restaurant. My grandfather actually already hung out there for a long time, at least they hung out there for at least 35 years. The old man who passed us the drinks, his hands were shaking. He’s like 75 years old. He knows everything about my family, but I don't know him. After that, I hung out for at least a few years and I suppose maybe he felt like he's another grandfather of mine. He knows our family, we created a relationship but it's an unconventional relationship. But without realizing it, this person knows so much about your family and it becomes like a second home, you know? Even though we moved so far away from where he was, we still come back to the same place. This coffee culture is what I feel like New York City is lacking. So I want to bring that kind of culture here. 

PART 4

Kyo: When I first opened up the first Kopitiam, it felt like a lot of people actually have their own thing, they look out the window and they do their own thing. But every time they come in, you feel like you know exactly what they want. And then without using language, you actually form so many unconventional relationships with each customer. And then when I closed out that one and opened up this one, I started seeing a lot of familiar faces, I realized that "Oh, actually, I served so many people!" Everyone has different stories. I remember one guy, whenever he walked through the store, he never smiled. He never smiles, but he will only have two things at the restaurant, which is the chill noodles or the Pulut Panggang. At one point, he had a very big poodle and it was snowing. I feel bad for the dog being outside. I said, "you can bring him in." And that's when we had our first conversation out of so many months. When we start talking, he starts saying something like "you're lucky because you're doing a job that you have so much passion about." He actually shocked me because at that time, I was happy but I was still in denial, because I don't want to be in the restaurant business because of course, you know… I don't want to be in the restaurant business. I don't want to be a chef. And then I keep asking myself, is this the job that I really love? Am I happy? Yes. But is it a job that I love? I don't know. I really don't know. When we're doing the renovation of this place, we were about to open a week before, he ran out here, looked at the logo, looked around, and he smiled the first smile I saw him do. This was the first time when I saw him smile, he walked up with a smile, and then he left. Maybe he's happy we came back. And then when I saw him back here again, I was like Ah! Okay!!

I think all of these moments are priceless. I feel sad. You know, like, if I ever have to say that Kopitiam is a person, I will think that Kopitiam is like grandparents, it will always be the second home for you whenever you need. Someone who keeps your belly full, always stuffs you with a bowl of warm soup, or anything that will make you feel good. You're probably had a bad day at your job or all kinds of things when you come here. We want to be able to give a plate but also make you feel safe and very comfortable. 

Hashika: That's beautiful.

Nicole: From 2015 to now, it's been what, six years, I guess? When you came to this space, you reopened. Describe the process of owning a restaurant. What were some things that you didn't know? What about something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first started out?

Kyo: Yesterday was my first day off in seven years. I work seven days a week, I don't take a day off but yesterday was because I had a second shot of Covid vaccination a couple of days ago. I feel like shit and I was like "I'm not coming to work" but I have my CCTV on all the time and my wife was like "don't look at it!"

Sometimes you probably think that opening a restaurant is easy, you open, people come in, they buy food, that's it. But no, there are always different tasks for you to handle. That's always the case, every day there's new things I have to do. Whenever you feel comfortable, something happens again. I think that for the restaurant business, it is always like that. It actually makes you remember how you opened in the first days. I think that is a good thing.  Whenever I have a new task coming up, it reminds me how hard it was when I started. I already passed that stage so that is what makes this new stage so tough. If I can pass this one, then next time I can face a bigger task, and see what is next! 

Nicole: When opening this restaurant in this space in particular did you make any big changes to bring any new ideas or concepts to Kopitiam?

Kyo: We have a lot of changes. For the first two years at this location I actually had a business partner. I bought her out during the pandemic because I don't think she understood the vibe that I actually wanted. She slowly tried to turn Kopitiam very hipster, it felt like eventually she kind of wanted to bring me out of the picture. I don't mind social media, as long as people are happy with the food, I'm fine. I don't want to do something for fame but I do want to make more of our product. The first few years, I was in charge mostly back of the house and she was at the front of the house. Then I bought her out. Right now it is actually the six month that she is out of the picture.

[A few staff members come in and start playfully banter with Kyo]

Kyo: Come on, why don't you work? [speaking to one of the staff member who just walked in]

Staff Member: I am wearing my shirt too! But I have homework…

Kyo: You can do your homework and work! It's fine!

[collective laughter, continued chit chat amongst staff]

Kyo: Okay okay, so here we run like a family thing, you know. Back then when I had a business partner, none of them would sit outside and talk like that. They were so scared. For her, she liked to establish the kind of “boss” stuff, she wanted everyone to behave in a certain way. For me, if this is your character, bring it out. Bring it out, as long as you're not pissing anyone off, it's okay! You know, be proud of yourself, like whatever you are. You don't have to fit in, there's always a space for you. This is how it's like, you know. Same thing with my kitchen, everyone has a different task because there are certain things that they're actually good at and I want to bring the best out of them. Something that they would like that they won't feel like "ugh, this is my job because I get paid and I have to do it." I don't like that. I want people to feel like whenever they are doing something, they do something they enjoy and all of that kind of thing. My wife has a restaurant and if they [the Kopitiam staff] are not hanging out here, they will be over there. They will play mahjong, they will do all this kind of thing. 

Hashika: We were actually gonna ask about the restaurant. The Public Village. What is it like having a partner that is also in the restaurant business?

Kyo: Don't work in the same restaurant 

[explosion of laughter] 

Kyo: For me, I can separate my work and the relationship but I don't know if my wife could. When I first started that restaurant with her, she almost drove me crazy. I was like "No, baby, you should listen to me" and she would be like "no!" If I felt like something should happen, I could NOT tell it to her.

Hashika: Off limits! 

Kyo: It was so funny, we first opened up that place and then we got married. Then it felt like we were divorcing. I know we're happy you know like whenever she's not working I'll go out and help her and we are able to work together now. Finally we got to that point. We are okay with that now but when you first started work together…

Hashika: I'm sure it's very hard, especially being in a relationship because you live with them, you work with them...

Kyo: When I opened the first  Kopitiam, I actually was with someone else. We were together for four years. But after six months opening the restaurant, we broke up. After four years. We found out in the past we were always trying to compromise to a level that we were actually not happy… until we opened up the restaurant and couldn’t compromise anymore.

PART 5

Nicole:

I want to obviously talk about COVID, we are still in it. It's been a crazy year and a half. I also can't believe that your wife started her restaurant [The Public Village] during the pandemic. What has your experience been like trying to keep this place a float, keep supporting your staff, keep money going through the doors but also like supporting the community that is around you? 

Kyo: When COVID first hit, our restaurant wasn't that bad yet because people wouldn’t think that a Malaysian restaurant is a Chinese restaurant, they would think that we were something else, right? Until like the early March, that's when we see drop in customers because the city started to shut down. My wife opened up the wrong day, like on March 15 and they shut down on March 17, like 2 days open. I told her "it's okay because you haven't opened up a restaurant before, take your time! Like serve one or two dishes you know to get the practice kind of thing, so it is not overwhelming.” When I first opened Kopitiam on the first day, I was gonna die in the kitchen. Everything was falling on the floor and I was just like "shit." I was like "oh no, like, I don't know how, I can't breathe right now. Can you please not order right now? Please?" 

[We proceeded to learn a little bit about last year’s split with Kyo’s previous business partner… tea we cannot unfortunately spill, however it is pretty dang good tea]

Hashika: Yeah, I mean, this goes back to what we were saying in the beginning, after everything bad happens, it will always come back to good. Look at where you are now! 

Nicole: You're seeing rainbows, flowers everywhere, wow. So six months have gone by now? Business is booming!  I kind of asked this before. And you mentioned when you kicked your former business partner six months ago, you just kind of revamped things and redecorated. With your recipes, what is your r&d process? 

Kyo: A lot of my cakes that I did in the past, the texture was not really that great, I was not happy with it for a while. I have to do a lot of revising now. Now that I changed it, for example, our Kuih Talam we used to only make like, twice a week. And now I have to do it almost every day. And the Kaya Jam, same thing, I used to do it like twice a week and now I do it three times a week. And then for our anchovies, we used to do it maybe once a week. Right now we have to do it two or three times a week to make 100 pounds of anchovies. With the toast, we actually take it elsewhere to bake but in the past we would get about 80 loaves per week. Right now, it is actually another 1/3 more. 

Nicole: The demand is so high!!

Kyo: Every two weeks, we change the menu. Every week we have a staff meeting and we have the things that we talk about. We changed our system to a point system that is based on performance, so the staff is doing great. They get more and more tips and all of that. For us, it's fast food, but our staff also have tips as well. So by using point systems, they will perform better.

Hashika: Ooo we love positive feedback

Kyo: Every other month, we will do some testing on drinks. We make sure that all the staff's drinks keep up to the standard that I want. I always do random tests, always random things. Like, whenever you're ready! 

Hashika: When you are at home, what do you eat? 

Kyo: When you cook so much at the store, you don't want to cook at home.

[collective laugh]

Kyo: Whenever my wife cooks, I'm happy. She cooks very family meals and I love it. Yesterday, I was not feeling well, I was at home and she said "Oh, I know you like when I cook so I will stay home and cook for you." I was like, “awwwwww, okayyyy!”

[another chuckle]

Kyo: But I don't really cook at home. I don't want to cook at home. 

Nicole: What's your favorite dish? If you could come into this restaurant and have an ideal eating experience, what would you order?

Kyo: The oyster omelette and the Kaya Toast. 

Nicole: Cool, straight to the point. 

Kyo: No one does the oyster omelette like the way that I do. If you go to most Malaysian places, they do the oyster omelette flat. This one is like my childhood, from the street fair. The menu is actually based on things from my experience back at home. For instance, this weekend, we have flat rice noodles with curry paste. In Penang, we serve it in a very simple style with a duck sauce with sriracha. I never actually see or actually eat a curry paste one. When I studied in KL, another capital of Malaysia, my roommate brought me to this hidden place and I realized that "Oh shit, like they served it like that?" I have a lot of memories about how they were served. I always believe memories are associated with your taste palate, that's how people define "authentic". There's no way to define it because "authentic" is associated with a taste that you recognize. So people will ask "Oh, is this authentic or not?" It really depends on where you're from. And then I do have a lot of customers that might think that we're very whitewashed. There are a lot of them that think the food that represents their home represents the whole Malaysia. There are 13 states in Malaysia, you know, and it's very funny. Like, no, don't get me wrong, but it's very funny to me. "Authentic" - this word only appears in Asian food, like you barely see any people say that about cheese burgers. For example, if I'm from Penang and you are from Penang and I cook something, you tell me, "this is not authentic," I get it. I understand. I would accept that because we're from the same place, right? But if I'm from Penang and you are from Ipoh and I go to Ipoh, I say, "Oh, this food is not authentic," you are gonna slap the shit out of me. But if we both are from Penang and Ipoh and we go to the United States, how can we define "authentic." You don't. That’s based on what standard?! Right?

Hashika: That is a really good point. It's based on so many different factors.

Kyo:  Exactly. It's like when I was first serving, I hear a lot of voices saying that this is not the actual Nasi Lemak that comes with fried chicken and all that, but they didn't know they were actually being spoiled with it, the one I put on the side with the fried chicken or with the curry is actually additional, it is actually a more modern Nasi Lemak. The dish itself was not filling enough, people started to add a little bit of a rice dish called Nasi Ganda which is a coconut rice to the side, so that is what the dish is. People get confused. The one that we have on the menu is a very original and very traditional Nasi Lemak. Way back when, we paid like $1 for a bag of Nasi Lemak. And you can eat two bags. It was like, you know, “I'm gonna be so bad, like I'm over eating.” But I would want like 10 bags, you know. See? A lot of associations with my memories. Like all the things I had on the menu, like my very simple mochi, nobody really served here in New York City. But this is something that I like from when I was back home. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort to do that. But I am willing to kind of push for it. Like the sweets that we have here, many places are not serving that because it takes a lot of time. And for Malaysian cuisine, it is very underrepresented. If you have spend a lot of time and effort to make sweets, I'm not sure a lot of people can actually continue to do it. Because it takes a lot of time. It's very time consuming. 

PART 6

Nicole: All in all, you are obviously very passionate and every aspect of this place is very well rounded. From the story to the entire vibe of this place, the relationship you have with your staff, the experience you want your customers to have. The memories from your home truly shine through in everything you do. You are clearly doing very good things! And also getting recognized for them! You have gotten a lot of recognition in the last few years. Two James Beard nominations!? Hello! That is crazy.

Kyo: It's so funny, the day I found out it was weird, I never knew what it was. I got a call from James Beard and I was like, "Okay..." That was a Wednesday. And like, we used to close on Wednesdays. Now we are open seven days a week. We used to be open up six days a week. That Wednesday, my former business partner was like "This is wonderful! My goodness!" and I was like "what do you mean? Like how am I supposed to react?" And she was like, "Well aren't you excited?" I wasn't trying to blame it on my Aspergers but I didn't know what direction she wanted me to go, especially on the phone. It is hard you know, like sometimes with some reactions, I could give you the reaction you want but you just need to let me know how you want me to react. Sometimes I don't show much empathy or emotions, but I am very grateful. I was raised in a different background, we are grateful and then we show our gratuity in different forms. 

Nicole: I have to say, you are clearly doing something right. I believe that is the end of my questions. Do you have any other projects that you're working on or want to brag about?

Kyo: An agency actually contacted me to see about a book by myself and what I am actually up to... we're still in the process and then let's see how it goes through because like, I just don't know how it's gonna end up. 

Nicole: Ugh you're killing it.

Kyo: Thank you. And I'm so excited. Thank you. Oh and Bobby Flay actually invited me to be on his show!! But... I don't think that is the right opportunity….  

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Kyo proceeded to give us an incredible amount of tea regarding several food television shows, including a run down of her episode of Chopped. We unfortunately cannot share this tea with you (pssssst never go on Beat Bobby Flay, it may or may not be rigged). 

Kopitam is an incredible establishment, it truly makes any customer feel at home. One thing we took away from Kyo's experience is trust your gut and also make sure you can trust the people you choose to work with. Also, get everything in writing… Always ;-)

THANK YOU to Kyo and the staff at Kopitiam for letting us bug them for an afternoon. The food is truly incredible, the space is exactly what Kyo intended it to be. Take your friends, a partner, or go alone! They will make you feel at home <3